The trick to getting session work in Nashville is knowing lots of producers. Producers (or music directors) assemble the players for each tracking session and are the gatekeepers to the world of studio work. So what are producers interested in when it comes to drumming? What do they want from a drummer?

Though there are some basic truths (be on time, play well, get along with others), the answers to the questions differ slightly depending on with whom you work. Each producer's musical influences and personal experience alters and shapes the drum sounds and parts they want for their tracks.  

With that in mind I decided to interview some Nashville producers on the subject of drums and drumming. Which drummers did they grow up listening to? What are their favorite drum tracks? Do they have any particular brands or sizes of drums they like to use in the studio? What about cymbals? What about miking? What do they appreciate from drummers they work with and what do they wish drummers were better at? And most importantly, what do they look for when hiring a drummer?

One of the Nashville producers I love to work with is Jim Reilley. Jim was a member of a critically acclaimed band called the New Dylans. The New Dylans made seven records and toured all over the country from the mid 80's until they broke up in 1998, and when the band ended Jim moved to Nashville and worked for eight years as a staff writer for Curb Publishing. Since then he has been producing other artists and releasing his own solo albums. 

Besides being a great writer, player, and musician, Jim is also a kind of rock and roll musicologist. He's the guy you call when you're wondering "Who played bass?" on a particular song or album. Jim's specialty is 60's pop, but then you get to talking and realize he knows the 70's pretty well too. And the 80's. And 90's...

When Jim needs a drummer he has his pick of regulars. Among others, he uses Ken Coomer of Wilco fame, Nashville rock-star Rich Redmond, and me, too, for certain types of sessions. Jim is always a pleasure to work with. On his sessions the players are always great and the music is often really good, too. 

Jim and I met at a local Nashville coffee shop and had a fast, bang-bang conversation about everything drums: 

SB: Jim. I know you love drumming.

JR: I do love drumming. I love drummers. The most important thing in a recording is the drums. Everything is important but if you're talking about a band, the drummer has to be the most important thing. 

SB: As the saying goes, "If the drum track is solid everything else sounds intentional." 

JR: Right. And if the drum track is terrible the whole track is terrible. 

SB: So who are some of the drummers you listened to growing up?

JR: Well, you'd have to start with Ringo.

SB: What is your favorite Ringo track?

JR: I think my favorite Ringo track of all time is a version of "All My Loving" from an album the BBC put out a couple years ago called "Live at the BBC". The Beatles got back to England after their first trip to America and did a show on the BBC in March of that year, like 64, right before they started working on "Hard Day's Night". Anyway, "All My Loving" is one of my favorite early Beatles' songs, and on the record and on Ed Sullivan and all the other stuff from that time it was swung, right? 

SB: Ya. "All My Loving" has that bounce.

JR: Well, on this record, "Live at the BBC", he plays it straight, with open hi-hats. And it ROCKS! It's like a totally different drummer's interpretation. 

SB: I've never heard that version.

JR: I have to play it for you. I don't know why he changed it, and I love the song the way it swung, too, you know? But when you A/B the two, the straight one is ten times more powerful. Ten times more important. That's my favorite Ringo track. 

SB: Interesting.

JR: "Rain" is another one I love. It is a great drum track from top to bottom and I think it's one of his favorites, too, because he's talked about it in interviews. No one can ignore Ringo's importance.

SB: What about Charlie Watts?

JR: Nor can they ignore Charlie Watts. 

SB: What is your favorite Watts track?

JR: Well, "Get off My Cloud" has that great riff in the beginning but I think my favorite Charlie Watts track is "Around and Around" off the album "Love You Live". That's one of the best drum tracks I've ever heard.

SB: How about John Bonham? 

JR: My first Zeppelin album was Physical Graffiti on 8-track and I loved "Kashmir" of course. I also liked "Boogie with Stu" for pure groove and I think my favorite Bonham of all time is "Wonton Song" from that same record. He rocks, he swishes, he dances - all in one track! Brilliant!

SB: I know you are a huge Beach Boys fan.

JR: I'm a huge Beach Boys fan and Dennis Wilson did the live stuff, you know, because Hal Blaine was "the guy" on all the Wrekking Crew sessions. You gotta hear Dennis Wilson live on "Darlin' " off "Beach Boys Live In London".  And also, on a CD/DVD called "Good Timin': Live at Knebworth". I think it was 79' or 80, right before he died, and you should hear his playing on "Be True To Your School". He is just barely hanging on at that point, but the tom work and the POWER he plays with is just so inspiring. After watching those videos it's clear that he was the backbone of that band. I mean, Brian Wilson was the genius of Rock and roll, but the Beach Boys really keyed off Dennis Wilson's playing in their live show. 

SB: What about Hal Blaine?

JR: Hal Blaine. I'm a huge 60's bubble gum pop fan and Hal Blaine played on so much of that. And everything he played on sounds amazing. From "Up, Up and Away", to the Partridge Family, and everything in between, including the Monkees! - who are my favorite band. Hal Blaine was the pulse of that era. He is as important as any player ever to me. One of the things I loved was how he fit with every band he played with. His drumming on "California Dreaming" is totally different than the stuff he did with the 5th Dimension, you know? 

SB: And he worked with so many different artists.

JR: Yes. And there was a guy on the other side of the pond, Clem Cattini, who was the British version of Hal Blaine. He played on "It's Not Unusual"  - Tom Jones, and the Kinks "You Really Got Me", and "Get It On". He played on all those old british pop songs, working sessions with Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones, you know? 

SB: Wow.

JR: And another guy I loved from that time was a drummer named Mickey Jones. He was the guy who took over in Dylan's band when Levon got fed up. And he's also the guy on all those Trini Lopez and Johnny Rivers records. Johnny Rivers "Rocks the Folk" was my first album. 

SB: Great era for drummers.

JR: Ya. One of the things I love about drummers from that time is that they played with power to get around the bad miking. They didn't bash, but played with power. Tom Jones "Promise Her Anything" - that is some power drumming with a huge band and bad miking. Also, I would be remiss if I didn't mention John Densmore of The Doors. He was absolutely brilliant!

At this point Neil Young comes on the speakers above our heads and Jim looks up and smiles.

JR: There's Kenny Buttrey on "Heart of Gold". I love this track for it's simplicity. There was an interview with Buttrey and he said Neil Young demanded that he play no cymbals in this song.

SB: I never noticed that. It has no cymbals.

JR: No cymbals until the very end. The last note!... THERE! He hit one on the last note because he had a great take and he knew Neil couldn't do anything about it.

SB: Ha.

JR: And it fits perfectly at the end, but Neil didn't want any cymbals on that track, and it worked really well. 

SB: We haven't mentioned the soul drummers from that era. Who did you like there?

JR: Well, I love that Funk brothers stuff.  

SB: Standing in the Shadows Of Motown?

JR: Everyone should watch "Standing in the Shadows Of Motown"! One of my favorite tracks from that era was that Cornelius Brothers & Sister Rose tune, "Too Late To Turn Back Now". It's an amazing drum track but it isn't credited. 

SB: Really?

JR: No, but whoever played on that was great! And there were so many other great drummers from Motown, Stax, Muscle Shoals... I love that Philli Soul, too.

SB: What about the southern bands' drummers?

JR: We were talking about the Allman Bros. earlier, how those guys didn't get along at first. They didn't like each other but then they played and it was magical. "Trouble No More" from the "Fillmore East" album. That's such great live drumming. Somewhere in the middle, I don't know, it's like a 6, 7 minute song, but at some point Jaimoe and Butch accidentally turn the beat around together at the same time. They get lost - together - which is crazy.

SB: Wow.

JR: And I also loved Artimus Pyle. 

SB: Skynyrd!

JR: When I was a kid and heard Skynyrd's live record "One More From The Road"... his playing on "Call Me The Breeze" is so wonderful. He's just flying like he is not even held to the ground, it's like he's dancing on the drums instead of hitting them. Lynyrd Skynyrd was as tight as a seven piece band could be and Artimus held it all together.

SB: Did you ever get into hard rock?

JR: I started to check out harder rock in the 70's. I loved Joey Kramer on "Write Me A Letter" from Aerosmith's first album. 

SB: Oh.

JR: The drums on "Write Me A Letter" set the tone from the very beginning. Man, for me, that's as good as it gets. I like "Mama Kin", too, but "Write Me A Letter" was amazing. 

SB: Did you ever see Aerosmith back then?

JR: No, but I had a vinyl live bootleg called "Look Homeward Angel". I don't even know if it made it to CD, but it was a performance from somewhere around 72', 73' in Hartford, Connecticut.

SB: Amazing.

A "Band" track comes out over the speakers and Jim smiles again.

JR: I was lucky enough to play some shows opening for the Band and I got to sit on the side and see what Levon really does.

SB: What does he do?

JR: Well, it's amazing because he doesn't play a straight beat. He accents his vocal lines with his arms, and he's hitting as he's singing so the vocal ends up dictating his drum parts. But see, listen to this! Jim points up to the speaker. Here Rick Danko starts singing and it changes the complexion of the song. When Rick sings the track becomes more solid and when Levon sings it's loose again. 

SB: I've never noticed that. He's a different drummer when he's singing. 

JR: Ya, Don Henley's vibe is similar to that. The singing drummers groove so naturally.

SB: What about 80's drummers. Who stood out for you then?

JR: Well, AC/DC was huge. 

SB: Any favorite Phil Rudd tracks?

JR: Ya. "Girls Got Rhythm". That is a purely rocking drum performance. Just four on the floor magic. The way he interplays with the guitar. The way they listen to eachother. It's so primal. Another one of my favorite 80's guys was Clem Burke. 

SB: Blondie.

JR: Talk about powerhouse drumming, on "Dreaming"! The bass drum really sets the pulse on that tune.

SB: What about Alex Van Halen?

JR: I love Alex Van Halen, especially on the first two records. He's got a tone that is so recognizable. So unique! And the way he plays, he'd get that same tone on any kit. He's a monster.

SB: Did you ever listen to any Rush in the 80's?

JR: I liked early Rush. In fact, "All the World's A Stage" is still one of my favorite live albums. You have to be vital in a three piece band and Peart definitely contributes his share. 

SB: Is there any one player that stands out today? Anybody new that you like?

JR: As far as drummers I really like lately, there's a guy named David Kemper on the last two Dylan Albums. He's on a track called "Summer Days" off "Love and Theft", and it's one of the best drum tracks I've heard in years.

SB: What do you like in a drummer when you are producing?

JR: I like a drummer to come in with some leadership. I love to be challenged on a call as a producer. I love when the drummer comes up with something I might not have come up with.

SB: Someone who will take charge.

JR: And also understand when to just listen, you know?

SB: Ya.

JR: Besides that I like versatility. I like a drummer who can play behind the beat when necessary, play in front of the beat when necessary, and never overplay. I'm not a fan of drummers who overplay. Also, I really love drummers who can tune their drums! A badly tuned drum set is the worst.

SB: Are there any types of drums or cymbals you like to use? 

JR: I like vintage sounds and I'm a gear head in general so I love to research old kits and snares. Old kits have a nice vibe. The wood is older and they've been beaten more. 

SB: Do you prefer any particular sized drums?

JR: I like small, focused kits with regular sized bass drums, like 22's or 24's. I'm not into those really big ones. And, personally, I like drummers with just a couple of toms. When I see more than that I worry they may be a showboat; someone I may not want to work with. It’s just my personal taste. 

SB: What about cymbals?

JR: I like smaller cymbals, too. I'm not a fan of those old, giant cymbals that weigh 50 pounds. I like more splash than thud/crash, with a faster decay. I know many people prefer those big ones but I don't. I think it's from mixing records. Big cymbals seem to take up so much sonic space in the track. That being said, if you’re doing a sparse jazz piece and the track has room for it, then a big old turkish ride is sweet. It’s just a time and place thing.

SB: Depends on the track?

JR: Ya, and the drummer. 

SB: Sure.

JR: I'm also a big fan of open hi-hats instead of ride cymbals. Sometimes when a drummer goes to the ride cymbal it feels as if the bottom drops out.

SB: That is interesting because as a drummer you're taught to go to the ride when you want to be your biggest.

JR: I know! Drummers are taught that the ride cymbal is more powerful but I don't agree.

SB: I think open hats are "bigger" than a ride cymbal, too. I tend to ride a crash when I want to be really  "big".

JR: Ya, that works. It's important for the drummer and producer to be able to communicate those kind of ideas and get on the same page easily. 

SB: Do you have any special mics or tricks for miking?

JR: Some engineers and producers get into different mics and techniques they swear by but I think you have to look at the drum, the room, and the player to decide what's best. Every variable affects the tone. Of course, some of my favorite music of all time is 60's ska, like the Skatellites, where they used one mic infront of the drums and it was from an old dictaphone machine. That was the only mic they had, and some of the drum sounds are amazing. I like miking the top and bottom of the snare. Nothing new really. Lots of times I just use the bottom, though, especially if the drummer isn't hitting that hard. There are a million ways to catch it but you have to start with a great sound. 

SB: Do you prefer older music to new music?

JR: There is a lot of great music out today but there is also a tendency now for everything to be technically perfect and I liked it when the tracks used to breathe more. A common theme to all the songs I grew up listening to is that they would breathe. 

SB: What do you mean by "breathe"?

JR: It's that unspoken human element, where the band is playing together and they feel a common heartbeat and can actually breathe as one unit, dancing around the beat but never losing it. It's like when you can almost feel the singer breathing and the band playing to it. Old jazz vocal records are full of that. Like Sinatra when he sang with a band. Check out Billie Holiday and listen to the band anticipate her delivery.

SB: Ya, I get that.

JR: In our quest to be so perfect and regimented we don't always have the luxury to wait for a beautiful track, so we just get it perfect to the click and move on.

Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" comes on above us and Jim pauses to take it in.

JR: Nigel Ollson was so great with Elton John. A lot of people don't realize that those guys were touring so much that, for a lot of those classic records, Bernie Taupin would give Elton lyrics, Elton would write the song, and they'd record it that day. They were doing a song a day like that, and all the songs would be future classic hits.

SB: That's so crazy!

JR: Ya. And Nigel Ollson was a big part of that.

SB: Who are some of the drummers you like to work with on your sessions - besides ME, of course...

JR: Of course. Besides you, some of my favorite drummers to work with in Nashville are, in no particular order - Ken Coomer, Steve Gorman, Rich Redmond, Fenner Castner, Matt Crouse, Jerry Roe, Paul Deakin, Jeff Marino, Brad Pemberton, and Jerry Augustyniak, when I can fly him down. 

SB: Great list. And that's Jerry Agustyniak from 10,000 Maniacs.

JR: Yes. And he's a drummer I really have to thank. If you hear him on that 1st Elektra album, "The Wishing Chair", most notably on cuts like "Back of the Moon" "Maddox Table" and "Can't Ignore the Train". He plays so well. Anyway, right after the Maniacs got back from recording that record, Jerry and John Lombardo (the original Maniacs' bassist) taught us studio 101 during one long weekend in Pittsburgh. Jerry's drumming was so propulsive and yet subtle at the same time, and he really helped me understand how important drums are on a recording.

SB: That was when you recorded the first New Dylans' album? 

JR: Yes. And for my first recorded history, the bar was set pretty high for drums. Thank you, Jerry.

SB: Well. Jim, thank you for taking the time to talk with me about drums and drumming. 

JR: Thank you, Steve. I enjoyed it. I really love great drumming and I'm lucky to work with a lot of great drummers here in Nashville. 

Links:

http://www.jimreilley.com/

http://www.myspace.com/jimreilley

From the interview:

Ringo:

Regular version of "All My Loving" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZlXJcpqvag

Straight version from BBC show - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djlQBIaJmxY

"Rain" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLJMSbEnn0

Charlie Watts:

"Get Off Of My Cloud" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3F4GmbHl5g

"Around and Around" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-GtHglLnwc

Dennis Wilson:

"Darlin' "  - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4isXmtCffXk

"Be True To Your School" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNuIAXA_BOI

Hal Blaine:

"California Dreamin' " - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wI6uAOHzvo

"Up, Up, and Away" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHeNN4qHKE4

Clem Cattini:

"It's Not Unusual" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr8DVTQWcy8

 "You Really Got Me" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk3Ei_yoI4c

 "Get It On" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrL9N62eaQc 

Micky Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWmTtJYOfc

Kenny Buttrey:

"Heart of Gold" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fXaC07X5M8

Funk Bros.:

"Standing in the Shadows Of Motown" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I5uvqjOVOo

Cornelius Bros. and Sister Rose:

"Too Late To Turn Back Now" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riwPGCEHu2A

Artimus Pyle:

"Call Me The Breeze" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsIqEq9OFxE

Joey Kramer:

"Write Me A Letter" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1EJDuUPkNw

80's:

"Girls Got Rhythm" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGR_wiTll14

Dreaming" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95AEzyWZX8I

10,000 Maniacs:

"Can't Ignore The Train" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAQumigsnwY

David Henry is a talented Nashville producer/engineer whom I first met in 2005 when he mixed the Bittersweets' debut album. A year later I moved to Nashville myself and since that time I've been lucky enough to work with David on records for Tori Sparks, Rod Picott, Joe Rathbone, the Bittersweets again, and others. 

Besides having great ears and great gear, David is also a fine musician. His main instruments are bass and cello, but David also plays piano, guitar, mandolin, trumpet, percussion, and vocals. (David would be modest but I've heard him record great tracks on every one of those instruments.) David's studio, True Tone Recording, is a converted house in the hipster heavy 12 South area and is always booked solid. I recently met David at an Indian restaurant on his lunch break and we had the following conversation:

SB: So you grew up Georgia, right?

DH: That's right. In Macon.

Oh. And you originally started as a guitarist, playing music with your brother Ned?

DH: Yes. When we first started I played guitar and sang, but Ned quickly proved to be the better guitarist so I looked for something else to do and ended up playing bass. 

SB: And you guys had a band?

DH: Ya, we had a band with our buddies in Junior High.

SB: Did you ever play gigs?

DH: Our biggest gig back then was the Junior High School talent show. It was an inner city school and we played Neil Young's "Like A Hurricane". We thought it was cool because it was distorted but basically we played this long, slow song -

SB: For kids who wanted to dance!

DH: Ya. (laughs) It went over like a ton of bricks. Around that time our older brother Jeff had a band with his guys and we eventually combined our bands. 

SB: How much older was Jeff?

DH: Three years.

SB: So that's a big difference. Now you were playing with High School guys.

DH: Ya, but both our bands were terrible. (laughs) What happened was, someone got a gig playing outside by a lake and the gig was like 9 hours long and nobody had enough material, so we put the two bands together. We realized then that we should just make one band, so Jeff, Ned, and I got a drummer and we did that for a while.

SB: What kind of music were you listening to around that time? And was it the radio or records or what? 

DH: Well, Ned and I are the youngest of four boys and our oldest brother George was heavily into the Stones, Neil Young, and Dylan; stuff like that. And I really got hooked into those records and didn't really listen to the radio for a while. I kind of checked out around the time Madonna was hitting it big. 

SB: So you were listening to those classic records?

DH: Ya, and making tapes and stuff. And from there I became a huge Bruce Springsteen fan and then Mellencamp, REM, and that whole scene.

SB: What was your band's music like?

DH: Kind of like a bad version of all of the above. (laughs) At one point we had a sax player and we were going for the Springsteen thing. Springsteen with a twang. We had three part harmonies.

SB: Wow. Three part harmonies are pretty cool for a young band.

DH: Yes, but like a young band we figured it out and then overused it. We had three part harmonies on every song from the first note all the way to the end.

SB: (laughs) Well, it must have taught you how to sing together. 

DH: Oh ya. In hindsight it was great. I learned a lot about harmony and voicing and that kind of stuff.

SB: So, when you think of a drummer from back then are there any names that come to mind?

DH: Well, Charlie Watts was certainly the first drummer that got my attention. I didn't know why at the time but now that I produce records I realize what I love about his drumming. I love how he serves the song. 

SB: Can you elaborate on what it means to "serve the song"?

DH: Ya. He's assertive, but the parts he plays go so well with the lyric and the vocal melody. And all the percussion parts, too. I just love those tracks.

SB: Is there a particular Stone's song that comes to mind when you think of Charlie Watts?

DH: Well, there's 20 of them on "Hot Rocks" alone! (laughs) But one track I've always loved is "Satisfaction". When the band stops and Charlie keeps going... and it's not even a fill, he just continues the beat, you know? But it is so exciting! 

SB: Ya, I love that break.

DH: And then there's the other side of his playing, like on "Can't Always Get What You Want", with the parts and the percussion, and... it could be RINGO on some of the fills in that song.

SB: You're right. And speaking of Ringo?

DH: Well, of course I loved Ringo, too, but with that Stones vs. Beatles thing? I've always leaned towards the Stones because of the groove. I mean, the Beatles had such great writing and playing and everything, but the Stones had that groove. That's what really got me into music early on.

SB: So back then, if you were auditioning a drummer, what would you have been looking for?

DH: Well, where we lived, if you found a guy who had a set of sticks that was your drummer. (laughs) We had a good drummer, actually, and we played with him from Junior High all the way through college frat bands. We were on the same circuit as Hootie And The Blowfish, you know?

SB: Oh wow!

DH: Our drummer was good but I kind of wish we'd been a more adventurous and mixed it up a little with other players. We would have learned a lot more.

SB: When did Brother Henry come about?

DH: That was around 1998-99 after we moved to Nashville.

SB: And you found Park Ellis to be the drummer for the band?

DH: Ya, Park and I did this kid's record together and, you know, Park is a great writer, too. When I first met him he had a songwriting deal with Alma/Irving. They were developing him to be an artist.

SB: Maybe that's why you like his drumming. He plays like an "artist".

DH: Well, like Charlie Watts, you have a guy who really respects the song and you can tell he's listening to the lyric and not covering anything up , you know, not being a show off but just supporting that song.

SB: As a singer that's what you want to hear behind you.

DH: Exactly. Park is a great drummer. I get to work with a lot great drummers here in Nashville. 

SB: Well, speaking of that, how did you become a "Nashville producer"?

DH: I started getting into gear when our frat band bought this crazy big PA and none of us had any idea how to hook it up. So, as my bandmates were driving the motor home I was in the back reading the Peavey and Alesis owner's manuals, and it was there I began to learn about crossovers, busses, and twitch flangers. Later, I followed my soon-to-be wife to Athens, GA, to finish college and after graduation I started interning with producer/ engineer John Keane.

SB: Oh! REM.

DH: Widespread Panic, Cowboy Junkies... a bunch of great bands.

SB: What did you do there?

DH: At John's studio I set up mics, answered the phone, fetched lunch, and read more owner's manuals, but, most importantly, I watched and listened. After a year or so it became clear that if I was going to be serious about making recording a career I was going to have to move to where the action was.

SB: Nashville!

DH: Nashville.

SB: So you just moved here and started looking for work?

DH: Once we moved here I picked up small engineer jobs and started to assemble a bit of gear in the guest bedroom. I also played cello with 4 or 5 local bands just trying to meet as many people in the music scene as possible. So, I began to recording some of these acts in my house, and then around Thanksgiving '97 I rented a crappy couple of rooms downtown between the Greyhound bus station and the homeless mission, and started "cranking out the indy hits". (laughs)

SB: Who are some of the drummers you record with here in town?

DH: Well, there's you. I've also had Craig Wright in a lot... I've had Paul Griffith... John Gardener came in and he was just fantastic. I've had people who are well known and I've had young guys. Tommy Perkinson is a great young player whom I've used. 

SB: Nice list.

DH: In Nashville you get spoiled because the drummers can play and yet, it's such a song writing town, the drummers aren't there to show off. They realize they are there to make the song sound great. They know their role. 

SB: What do you like from a drummer on a session?

DH: The drummers that impress me are the ones that walk that fine line between being assertive and even explosive at the right time, but who can also find the groove that supports the song. The great drummers always find the kick pattern that supports the vocals, they fill in the holes, they launch the bridge... they listen and they play appropriately.

SB: Is there a particular brand of drum you like?

DH: Well, I see a lot of vintage stuff in here. Lots of old Slingerlands, Ludwigs, Rogers... that or it's some hand made modern kit like yours. (San Francisco Drum Company) I hardly ever see new stuff like DW. And the kits tend to be smaller - two, maybe three toms.

SB: In Jim Reilley's interview he said a similar thing about the size of the drum set.

DH: If I see more than three toms I get worried, like, what's going on? Unless they are just trying different colors, but even then the good drummers will bring a lot of stuff and just set up a small kit. They might have other snares and toms, or even another bass drum, especially when you're making a whole record it's kind of fun to try out lots of different drums and cymbals so every track doesn't sound alike, but I rarely see someone set it all up at the same time.

SB: Is there anything drummers do that you hate?

DH: I'll tell you one thing that always set's me off. If the drummer sets the kit up with their cymbals so low that I can't get mics on the drums. That tells me right away that they don't know what they're doing.  Usually if the cymbals are that low it ends up being a difficult drummer to work with. 

SB: That's interesting.

DH: Having said that I like to use SM-57's on the toms and snare and they are long mics so you need a little more room. But still! A lot of people use smaller mics, like those EV 408's. And I think those are work really well, but I've had great luck with SM57's. They have a great presence. A 57 can get lots of low end on the toms.

SB: 57's are so common live. I didn't know they worked so well in the studio, too.

DH: You have to move them around the drum a little. If you get too close they can sound tubby and if they are too far out you lose the low end. You have to find the sweet spot.

SB: What about bass drum miking?

DH: I like an AKG D 112. With those you can stick it inside the drum if you want more of that bite, or back out and get a rounder tone.

SB: What about overheads? 

DH: Well, I've actually been using a Rode NT4 stereo mic. It's cheap but has a nice high end. It doesn't have a super wide stereo spread - it just kind of captures the breadth of the kit. 

SB: How do you position it?

DH: I try to position it so one cap is facing the crash over the rack tom and the other is pointing toward the ride cymbal, and then balance the level so that when you hit the snare it's the same on both channels. That seems to create a really nice balance between the cymbals and snare drum.

SB: Interesting.

DH: Other than that it's 57's on the snare and toms. I do use two small diaphragm Shure SM94's for under the snare and the hat. For the room I try all manner of different mics depending on the flavor of the project.  Sometimes ribbon mics, sometimes tube. Sometimes cheap ones. Then from the snake I go to my 70's era class A Studer 269 for mic pre's and EQ. I usually compress the snare and kick with a Drawmer 241 with the top and bottom snare channels bussed together. I love to commit. From there it's to some Apogee converters and then off to Pro Tools. 

SB: When it comes to cymbals, is there any special brand or size you prefer?

DH: Not really. I know what I like when I hear it, though. I love Sabians, Zildjians, all the traditional stuff. I think the biggest thing is for the cymbals to be the right pitch and weight for the song. And not too cute. 

SB: Cute?

DH: Ya, sometimes you want a china cymbal or a splash but if the song doesn't call for it put them away. Also, as I said earlier, I love when drummers change out their cymbals every so often to get some different colors.

SB: What advice would you give to a drummer who wants to get into sessions?

DH: Well, one thing I would recommend is to work on controlling your volume. It's usually more fun to PLAY loud music than it is to HEAR loud music, and many people tend to play loud all the time. I've worked with bands that get in the studio and find out they've been playing different chords at the same time and never noticed.

SB: And they been playing it that way for months!

DH: Yes. And they never knew because their shows were loud, their practices were loud, you know? I would say, work on sounding great at a lower volume. Everything sounds big and exciting when it's loud, but, as a drummer, if you can sound big and exciting at a lower volume that's saying something.

SB: What about playing to a click?

DH: I just think of the click as another musician. If you can't play to it it just means you're not listening, and if you're not listening you're not serving the song. It's critical to be able to play to a click. Whether or not you use it on every song is a question for the producer or artist, but you should be able to do it.

SB: I actually prefer to track to a click.

DH: Well, it creates a certain feel. It creates a sound, a stability. It makes for a smoother, slicker, pop sound. If you want your song to sound that way it's kind of the only way to go.

SB: And you can interchange tracks so easily.

DH: Ya! From an engineer's standpoint it's way better. If you you want to edit between different passes? Or if you are doing punch ins? Having a click assures the tempos are all the same between passes and makes editing so much easier. 

SB: Of course, protools makes recording easier too, huh?

DH: Definitely. One of the things I like about protools is that you don't have to record the drums first anymore. Now you can get the the arrangement and tempo set the way you want it, THEN add the drums. 

SB: That's a great benefit because it allows the drummer to hear how big the song will end up and can match its intensity easier.

DH: Yes. Instead of trying to imagine what the dynamics will be in the end and hoping you match the intensity.

SB: As technology continues to make new strides the question always comes up: Do you think drummers will ever become obsolete in the studio?

DH: There's no chance that drum machines will replace drummers in MY studio. Technology has its place in modern music but if you're looking for a track that breathes and has soul there's no question that you need a performance created by something with a heart rate and a habit. 

SB: HA!

DH: Really though, the brain gets bored with experiencing the same sound and delivery over and over again. Even if it's a static, repetitive part, a drummer playing the groove has a vitality that can't be created by ones and zeros.

SB: I agree. And you can't get Indian food with a computer program.

DH: And there's THAT!

SB: Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about drumming, David.

DH: My pleasure. Thank you.

Selected from his discography, this is David Henry...

... as a player.

Ben Folds

Butterfly Boucher

Def Leppard

Derek Webb

Garrison Star

Indigo Girls

Jars of Clay

Kasey Chambers

Mindy Smith

Over the Rhine

Steve Earle

Taylor Swift

Tim McGraw

Vic Chesnutt

...as a player and engineer. 

Cowboy Junkies

David Mead

Jill Sobule

The Pierces

Widespread Panic

Will Kimbrough

Yo La Tengo

...as a player, engineer and producer.

Guster

Josh Rouse

Matthew Ryan

Tommy Womack

Vienna Teng

...as an engineer.

R.E.M.

From the interview:

Brother Henry  - http://www.brotherhenry.com

Neil Young "Like A Hurricane"  - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obfci1CIqq8&feature - neil young

Bruce Springsteen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Springsteen

Hot Rocks - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Rocks_1964-1971

"Satisfaction" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejtR81RzCo

"Can't Always Get What You Want" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jyKabLHVc

John Keane - http://www.johnkeanestudios.com

SM57 - http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_SM57-LC_content

EV 408 - http://www.bsu.edu/met/gobbledygook/cr/electrovoice/ev_nd408_info.html

AKG D 112 - http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,261,nodeid,2,_language,EN,pid,261.html

Rode NT4 stereo mic - http://usa.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NT4

Shure SM94 - http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_SM94-LC_content

Drawmer 241 Auto Compressor - http://www.drawmer.com/products/pro-series/dl241.php

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